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Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/17/2008 1:53:12 PM
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rgod
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I'm interested in learning more about what are the recent developments in the fight over abortion. What I'm really interested in are recent court rulings or legislative actions - or something similar. Please, I'm not looking to discuss the election, political party views, who is pro-choice or pro-life - nor am I looking for any type of discussion as to why abortion is wrong or why it should be allowed. Rather, what I'm trying to do is to simply assess where we are as a nation on this and to determine if Roe vs. Wade is any closer to being overturned today (due to different precedents that have been set) than it was in the past - based on legal developments in this area. I'd really appreciate any links that anyone would have that could help me to understand what is happening with this! Thanks, rgod
_____________________________
"The road to the promised land runs past Sinai." - C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain "It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply." - A.W. Tozer
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/17/2008 2:56:32 PM
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Rockwall
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This is not a recent court proceeding or legislative action, but a recent poll on what Americans feel about abortion. The question most identified with there position: would only support abortion in case of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother (32%). From this poll, most Americans support abortions with restrictions attached. quote:
The poll asked respondents to state which of six statements came closest to describing their opinion on abortion. -- 8% of US residents chose option 1, that abortion should be available to a woman any time she wants one during her entire pregnancy; -- 8% chose option 2, that abortion should be allowed only during the first 6 months of pregnancy; -- 24% chose option 3, that abortion should be allowed only during the first 3 months of pregnancy; -- 32% chose option 4, that abortion should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother; -- 15% chose option 5, that abortion should be allowed only to save the life of the mother; and -- 13% chose option 6, that abortion should never be permitted under any circumstance. The poll also revealed that only 15% of those describing themselves as "pro-choice" favored unrestricted abortion throughout a pregnancy. 71% of pro-choice respondents said they would significantly restrict abortions. Of these 43% would restrict abortion to the first trimester and 23% would restrict abortion only to cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother. Source LINK
_____________________________
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants -- Thomas Jefforson
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/17/2008 3:42:16 PM
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P31W
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71% of self-described pro-choice voters would significantly restrict abortion This surprised me. It appears to me that the Pro-choice folks to want some limits on abortion. They don't favor what Obama would be doing if elected in signing the Act and removing all state restrictions.
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/17/2008 6:27:39 PM
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rgod
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Thanks for the poll data. It would be interesting to see if public opinion has shifted significantly since Roe v. Wade was implemented ... I wonder if there are legal challenges to limit abortions to only options 3, 4 and 5 (only the first trimester, abortions in the case of rape, incest, to save the life of the mother) - and that would be more successful? Kind of like inching forward on overturning Roe v. Wade. Thanks for not turning this into an election discussion - I'm just looking for a good snapshot of what kinds of legal challenges are taking place currently!
_____________________________
"The road to the promised land runs past Sinai." - C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain "It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply." - A.W. Tozer
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 5:06:59 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 793
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod Thanks for the poll data. It would be interesting to see if public opinion has shifted significantly since Roe v. Wade was implemented ... I wonder if there are legal challenges to limit abortions to only options 3, 4 and 5 (only the first trimester, abortions in the case of rape, incest, to save the life of the mother) - and that would be more successful? Kind of like inching forward on overturning Roe v. Wade. Thanks for not turning this into an election discussion - I'm just looking for a good snapshot of what kinds of legal challenges are taking place currently! Be very skeptical of any polls regarding abortion. The public is tremendously ignorant. They are purposely decieved by those who favor unrestricted legality to kill. Clear language and understanding are their enemy, so they run an ongoing campaign of deception. Here are some examples. - Overturning Death Roe is the end of abortion. This deception is designed to scare people who would accept many restrictions on abortion, but not outright banishment. In fact, killing Roe would turn the matter over to the states just like before Roe when the US had about half a million legal abortions annually. - The child doesn't feel pain. They're afraid to admit that they cause great suffering to children of mid and late term pregnancies. In the last days of the Republican majority in Congress, Democrats killed a bill designed to provide pain relief to abortion victims. - Back alley abortions could kill many women. Before Roe and the drastic rise it led to in baby deaths, very few mothers died from killing their babies, legally or illegally. Most deaths to abortive mothers occurred many decades ago due to infection, the kind that were cured with the advancement of modern antibiotics. Read some of Bernard Nathanson's works. Dr. Nathanson was a founder of NARAL and the owner of the nations largest pre-Roe abortion clinic. He openly admits to a campaign of lies put out by pro-abortionists and repeated by willing accomplices in the media. You can visit or get email updates from www.lifenews.com .
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 7:07:16 AM
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47.samuel
Posts: 87
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod I'm interested in learning more about what are the recent developments in the fight over abortion. What I'm really interested in are recent court rulings or legislative actions - or something similar. Please, I'm not looking to discuss the election, political party views, who is pro-choice or pro-life - nor am I looking for any type of discussion as to why abortion is wrong or why it should be allowed. Rather, what I'm trying to do is to simply assess where we are as a nation on this and to determine if Roe vs. Wade is any closer to being overturned today (due to different precedents that have been set) than it was in the past - based on legal developments in this area. I'd really appreciate any links that anyone would have that could help me to understand what is happening with this! Thanks, rgod ************************************************************* quote:
Legal or Not, Abortion Rates Compare By Elisabeth Rosenthall Published: October 12, 2007 ROME, Oct. 11 — A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not, suggesting that outlawing the procedure does little to deter women seeking it. ..... Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.” ..... The study indicated that about 20 million abortions that would be considered unsafe are performed each year and that 67,000 women die as a result of complications from those abortions, most in countries where abortion is illegal. ...... In Uganda, where abortion is illegal and sex education programs focus only on abstinence, the estimated abortion rate was 54 per 1,000 women in 2003, more than twice the rate in the United States, 21 per 1,000 in that year. The lowest rate, 12 per 1,000, was in Western Europe, with legal abortion and widely available contraception. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html The study puts into question many long held assumptions including that the appointment conversative justices to the Supreme Court leading to the repeal of Roe v Wade will reduce the number of abortions in America. It would appear ready access to contraception, and not government legislation, has proven to be the most effective method of reducing the abortion rate. How else does one explain nations like Uganda where abortion is illegal and public education focuses on abstinence having rates far in excess of countries in Western Europe - where it is legal.?
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 9:23:17 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 793
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 47.samuel quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod I'm interested in learning more about what are the recent developments in the fight over abortion. What I'm really interested in are recent court rulings or legislative actions - or something similar. Please, I'm not looking to discuss the election, political party views, who is pro-choice or pro-life - nor am I looking for any type of discussion as to why abortion is wrong or why it should be allowed. Rather, what I'm trying to do is to simply assess where we are as a nation on this and to determine if Roe vs. Wade is any closer to being overturned today (due to different precedents that have been set) than it was in the past - based on legal developments in this area. I'd really appreciate any links that anyone would have that could help me to understand what is happening with this! Thanks, rgod ************************************************************* quote:
Legal or Not, Abortion Rates Compare By Elisabeth Rosenthall Published: October 12, 2007 ROME, Oct. 11 — A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not, suggesting that outlawing the procedure does little to deter women seeking it. ..... Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.” ..... The study indicated that about 20 million abortions that would be considered unsafe are performed each year and that 67,000 women die as a result of complications from those abortions, most in countries where abortion is illegal. ...... In Uganda, where abortion is illegal and sex education programs focus only on abstinence, the estimated abortion rate was 54 per 1,000 women in 2003, more than twice the rate in the United States, 21 per 1,000 in that year. The lowest rate, 12 per 1,000, was in Western Europe, with legal abortion and widely available contraception. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html The study puts into question many long held assumptions including that the appointment conversative justices to the Supreme Court leading to the repeal of Roe v Wade will reduce the number of abortions in America. It would appear ready access to contraception, and not government legislation, has proven to be the most effective method of reducing the abortion rate. How else does one explain nations like Uganda where abortion is illegal and public education focuses on abstinence having rates far in excess of countries in Western Europe - where it is legal.? Like I said, there is a lot of ignorance about abortion. One is the history of abortion. Before Death Roe, there were about 500,000 abortions annually in the US. That tripled in a very short time after the right to dismember a baby was invented. Another rarely spoken aspect of abortion is the desire for dead brown and black babies. Margaret Sanger, racist and founder of Planned Parenthood, had her Negro Project. The foundation was set to specifically target minority children and is carried out today. Blacks are about 17% of the population in the USA, but black children are about 35% of abortion victims. Planned Parenthood was recently caught accepting money from donors who specifically requested that it be used to kill black children. Liberal administrations in our Federal government have promoted the killing of brown and black children, giving money to organizations who will do just that. That is a goal of the half-white man currently running for president.
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 9:49:25 AM
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rgod
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Hi everyone, Thanks for the responses thus far. ljmaac - thanks - I was going to ask you where you get your information. I appreciate you sharing about Nathanson and lifenews.com. That is exactly the kind of information that I'm looking for. Also, thanks 47.Samuel for the article by Rosenthall. I'm not quite sure though if it will have the information that I'm looking for - but it should give me some clues as to places that I can look. Does anyone else have information on legislative action or the current status of the abortion fight (on either side)? ljmaac - what was the bill that you were referring to here?: quote:
In the last days of the Republican majority in Congress, Democrats killed a bill designed to provide pain relief to abortion victims. Does anyone else have links or books that you could recommend that I read? Thanks! rgod
_____________________________
"The road to the promised land runs past Sinai." - C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain "It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply." - A.W. Tozer
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 10:04:21 AM
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bravjim
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I know that you said that you do not want to involve the election, but I heard the other night after the debate that Obama supports legislation that would allow abortions to be paid for with tax dollars. I only have heard it once, and haven't heard any details since, or what legislation they are referring to, or if it is even being considered at this time. Since you are requesting information on recent developments, I would consider this a rumor at this point.
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I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 11:09:24 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 793
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod Hi everyone, Thanks for the responses thus far. ljmaac - thanks - I was going to ask you where you get your information. I appreciate you sharing about Nathanson and lifenews.com. That is exactly the kind of information that I'm looking for. Also, thanks 47.Samuel for the article by Rosenthall. I'm not quite sure though if it will have the information that I'm looking for - but it should give me some clues as to places that I can look. Does anyone else have information on legislative action or the current status of the abortion fight (on either side)? ljmaac - what was the bill that you were referring to here?: quote:
In the last days of the Republican majority in Congress, Democrats killed a bill designed to provide pain relief to abortion victims. Does anyone else have links or books that you could recommend that I read? Thanks! rgod The bill was H.R. 6099. I don't feel your pain. The NRLC has a legislation tab at the top of their home page. NRLC
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/18/2008 11:25:21 AM
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ljmac
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Joined: 11/20/2006
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It's never been a rumor. RH Reality Check, a pro abortion group, asked the Democratic candidates a series of quetions about abortion and related issues. They specifically asked if they supported the Hyde (R-IL) amendment, which bans federal funding for abortions in America. The answer from Obama's office was: "Obama does not support the Hyde amendment. He believes that the federal government should not... selectively withhold benefits because she (mother) seeks to exercise her right of reproductive choice..." The same survey revealed the desire to spend money aborting children in foreign countries, the opposition to parental notification and the opposition to Pregnancy Counseling Centers. abortion any time, any where and any reason
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/19/2008 12:24:45 AM
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rgod
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Joined: 4/25/2005
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Thanks - for the information. What I'm trying to avoid is this thread going off on a tangent - ('the dems want abortion - the republicans don't - don't vote democrat', etc.). But mentioning the Hyde act is fine since it is a piece of legislation that I think fits what I'm looking for. Any other legislation or links that would help me to become more well-versed on this issue? Thanks!
_____________________________
"The road to the promised land runs past Sinai." - C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain "It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply." - A.W. Tozer
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RE: Recent Developments In Fight Over Abortion - 10/19/2008 11:53:06 AM
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Rockwall
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From: Texas
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Here is an important South Dakota abortion law that took effect in June 27th, 2008 but had been appealed since 2005. South Dakota will actually have a vote this election on whether they want to ban abortions which will challenge Roe v. Wade, but I will focus on the first SD law. quote:
New SD Abortion Law In Effect Effective Saturday, a new South Dakota state law requires doctors to notify women seeking an abortion that they are ending a human life. The law was actually passed in 2005 and it says doctors must tell women, in writing, that abortion "will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique living human being." --- Still, those against abortion are looking forward to November when South Dakotans will decide if they want to approve a widespread abortion ban. Their opponents are hoping that won't happen and will continue to canvas the state with pro-choice literature. News LINK The preliminary injunction was brought by "Planned Parenthood Minnesota, North Dakota South Dakota", and the highlighted below is the centerpiece of controversy. They say that forcing a physician to tell an abortion patient they are aborting a "human being" is against the physicians free speech. quote:
A consent to an abortion is not voluntary and informed, unless, in addition to any other information that must be disclosed under the common law doctrine, the physician provides that pregnant woman with the following information: (1) A statement in writing providing the following information: (a) The name of the physician who will perform the abortion; (b) That the abortion will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being; (c) That the pregnant woman has an existing relationship with that unborn human being and that the relationship enjoys protection under the United States Constitution and under the laws of South Dakota; (d) That by having an abortion, her existing relationship and her existing constitutional rights with regards to that relationship will be terminated; (e) A description of all known medical risks of the procedure and statistically significant risk factors to which the pregnant woman would be subjected, including: (i) Depression and related psychological distress; (ii) Increased risk of suicide ideation and suicide; --- In addition, § 8(4) of the Act amended S.D.C.L. § 34-23A-1 to define “Human being” for the purposes of the informed-consent-to-abortion statute as “an individual living member of the species of Homo sapiens, including the unborn human being during the entire embryonic and fetal ages from fertilization to full gestation.” A physician who violates the Act knowingly or in reckless disregard is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. S.D.C.L. § 34-23A-10.2. What is the controversy? Well they say that "the devil is in the details". Roe v. Wade never uses the word "baby", rather the word used is "fetus". Since they cannot force a physician to call the aborted a baby, they are calling him/her a human being instead. If you are terminating the life of a human being, in essence you are killing a human being. Affidavit LINK
_____________________________
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants -- Thomas Jefforson
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