quote:

We know now, without a doubt, that not one single person was wrongly targeted by Senator Joseph McCarthy.

quote:

What do we find in the summer of 1951? The writs of Moscow run to... a good 40 percent of all men living.... How do we account for our present situation unless we believe that men high in this government are concerting to deliver us to disaster? This must be the product of a great conspiracy, a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, when it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men...

We are dealing with the administration Commiecrat Party of Betrayal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Ann Coulter's book "Treason" is another good source of information on McCarthy being correct in his accusations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Ann Coulter's book "Treason" is another good source of information on McCarthy being correct in his accusations.

Coulter may be a great comedian (I love her charicature of the far-right; she deserves her own show like Stephen Colbert), but I wouldn't consider her a reliable source of information.

quote:

Really? So Truman and other White House officials were really communist conspirators? Can you please show me where in the released Russian documents it shows this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj
Many were. I have not heard of Truman before now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj
Many were. I have not heard of Truman before now.

IIRC, crazy Annie alleges this in her book. But in any case, it appears McCarthy has accused a large number of Truman administration members of being communists. Do we have any evidence to document that he didn't unfairly accuse anyone? Or is it possible that some of them weren't communists?

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

It could be that just because it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it still might be a roaring lion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

We know now, without a doubt, that not one single person was wrongly targeted by Senator Joseph McCarthy.

Really? So Truman and other White House officials were really communist conspirators? Can you please show me where in the released Russian documents it shows this?

quote:

What do we find in the summer of 1951? The writs of Moscow run to... a good 40 percent of all men living.... How do we account for our present situation unless we believe that men high in this government are concerting to deliver us to disaster? This must be the product of a great conspiracy, a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, when it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men...

We are dealing with the administration Commiecrat Party of Betrayal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj
Many were. I have not heard of Truman before now.

IIRC, crazy Annie alleges this in her book. But in any case, it appears McCarthy has accused a large number of Truman administration members of being communists. Do we have any evidence to document that he didn't unfairly accuse anyone? Or is it possible that some of them weren't communists?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

Some years back I ran across documents that revealed
the "liberals" calling themselves democrats were all card
carrying members of the Socialist Party.

I've been searching this month for that information but
can't find it. Like a lot of things, many things are disappearing
from websites all over the place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Really? So Truman and other White House officials were really communist conspirators? Can you please show me where in the released Russian documents it shows this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Firt, show me where McCarthy targeted Truman and named him as a communist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Give us NAMES and site specific charges he leveled against Truman.

Generalities won't cut it with us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

Thanks. No wonder I couldn't find it.

Before they were honest enough to use the term
of what it is "The Socialist Party."

They just changed the name.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Give us NAMES and site specific charges he leveled against Truman.

quote:

After becoming Secretary of State in 1949, Acheson and George Marshall, Secretary of Defense, came under increasing attack from right-wing politicians who considered the two men to be soft on communism.
On February 9, 1950, Joseph McCarthy made a speech in Wheeling, West Virginia where he claimed that he had a list of 250 people in the State Department known to be members of the American Communist Party. McCarthy went on to argue that some of these people were passing secret information to the Soviet Union.
McCarthy had obtained his information from his friend, J. Edgar Hoover, the head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). William Sullivan, one of Hoover's agents, later admitted that: "We were the ones who made the McCarthy hearings possible. We fed McCarthy all the material he was using."

quote:

Then there are names that Coulter doesn't dare name, such as Theodore Kaghan. To transform McCarthy into a hero, Coulter carefully airbrushes all these unpleasant episodes from his career. "This version will be unfamiliar to most Americans inasmuch as it includes facts," she explains, introducing her biographical sketch of the Wisconsin senator. Perhaps it includes some facts, but it certainly omits others.
Coulter discusses McCarthy's impressive high school record in considerable loving detail. But somehow she neglects to mention McCarthy's first moment in the national spotlight. That was his infamous 1949 campaign on behalf of Nazi S.S. officers who were convicted of war crimes for the massacre of American troops in the town of Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Give us NAMES and site specific charges he leveled against Truman.

Generalities won't cut it with us.

quote:

How do we account for our present situation unless we believe that men high in this government are concerting to deliver us to disaster? This must be the product of a great conspiracy, a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, when it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men...

We are dealing with the administration Commiecrat Party of Betrayal.
- Sen Joe McCarthy, June 14, 1951

quote:


If Marshall were merely stupid, the laws of probability would have dictated that at least some of his decisions would have served this country's interests... We have declined so procipitously in relation to the Soviet Union in the last six years, how much swifter may be our fall into disaster with Marshall's policies continuing to guide us?

quote:

We know now, without a doubt, that not one single person was wrongly targeted by Senator Joseph McCarthy. Not one. FBI files and KGB files have vindicated him on every count and every person was as he charged.

quote:

That Jessup had been affiliated with five Communist front groups;
That Jessup had been a leading light in the Institute of Pacific Relations (IPR) at a time that organization was reflecting the Communist Party line;
And that he had "pioneered the smear campaign against Nationalist China and Chiang Kai-shek" and propagated the "myth of the 'democratic Chinese Communist'" through the IPR magazine, Far Eastern Survey, over which he had "absolute control";
That Jessup had associated with known Communists in the IPR;
That the IPR's American Council under Jessup's guidance had received more than $7,000 of Communist funds from Frederick Vanderbilt Field;
That Jessup had "expressed vigorous opposition" to attempts to investigate Communist penetration of the IPR;
That Jessup had urged that United States atom bomb production be brought to a halt in 1946, and that essential atomic ingredients be "dumped into the ocean";
That Jessup had appeared as a character witness for Alger Hiss, and that later, after Alger Hiss's conviction, Jessup had found "no reason whatever to change his opinion about Hiss's veracity, loyalty and integrity."

quote:

[Benton has] established himself as the hero of every Communist and crook in and out of Congress.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
(Whispering) It's awfully quiet around here...

quote:


Senator McCarthy is, of course, so anxious for the headlines that he is prepared to go to any extreme to secure some mention of his name in the public press. His actions create trouble on the Hill with members of the party... I really believe nothing will be so effective in combating his particular kind of troublemaking as to ignore him

quote:

I guess my question would be - What's the difference between 1950's fear mongering right wingers and the 2000's fear mongering right wingers?

quote:

On February 9, 1950, Joseph McCarthy made a speech in Wheeling, West Virginia where he claimed that he had a list of 250 people in the State Department known to be members of the American Communist Party. McCarthy went on to argue that some of these people were passing secret information to the Soviet Union.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Give us NAMES and site specific charges he leveled against Truman.

Here's One.

quote:

After becoming Secretary of State in 1949, Acheson and George Marshall, Secretary of Defense, came under increasing attack from right-wing politicians who considered the two men to be soft on communism.
On February 9, 1950, Joseph McCarthy made a speech in Wheeling, West Virginia where he claimed that he had a list of 250 people in the State Department known to be members of the American Communist Party. McCarthy went on to argue that some of these people were passing secret information to the Soviet Union.
McCarthy had obtained his information from his friend, J. Edgar Hoover, the head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). William Sullivan, one of Hoover's agents, later admitted that: "We were the ones who made the McCarthy hearings possible. We fed McCarthy all the material he was using."

And one on Ann

quote:

Then there are names that Coulter doesn't dare name, such as Theodore Kaghan. To transform McCarthy into a hero, Coulter carefully airbrushes all these unpleasant episodes from his career. "This version will be unfamiliar to most Americans inasmuch as it includes facts," she explains, introducing her biographical sketch of the Wisconsin senator. Perhaps it includes some facts, but it certainly omits others.
Coulter discusses McCarthy's impressive high school record in considerable loving detail. But somehow she neglects to mention McCarthy's first moment in the national spotlight. That was his infamous 1949 campaign on behalf of Nazi S.S. officers who were convicted of war crimes for the massacre of American troops in the town of Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge.

Lot's morer stuff, but McCarthy wasn't crazy enough to call Truman a Communist, just accuse him of being their dupe and hiring their "agents".

I guess my question would be - What's the difference between 1950's fear mongering right wingers and the 2000's fear mongering right wingers?

Both groups are being fed information by "informative" sources. In fact, it could be argued that Couter & Hannity's motives (greed) are purer than Hoover's (power).

quote:

On February 9, 1950, Joseph McCarthy made a speech in Wheeling, West Virginia where he claimed that he had a list of 250 people in the State Department known to be members of the American Communist Party. McCarthy went on to argue that some of these people were passing secret information to the Soviet Union.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Give us NAMES and site specific charges he leveled against Truman.

Generalities won't cut it with us.

Hi TMeeks. I think McCarthy's own quote pretty much speaks for itself. The problem isn't that us liberals speak in generalities; it's that McCarthy did- and generalized the Truman administration as being Communist agents.

Do you agree that McCarthy's generalization (quoted above) tainted a lot of innocent people in the Truman administration? Or was everyone in the Truman administration guilty of passing secrets to the Commies, including Truman?

Let me repeat McCarthy's quote one more time for you, if I must:

quote:

How do we account for our present situation unless we believe that men high in this government are concerting to deliver us to disaster? This must be the product of a great conspiracy, a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, when it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men...

We are dealing with the administration Commiecrat Party of Betrayal.
- Sen Joe McCarthy, June 14, 1951

In the same speech, he also delivered this message:

quote:


If Marshall were merely stupid, the laws of probability would have dictated that at least some of his decisions would have served this country's interests... We have declined so procipitously in relation to the Soviet Union in the last six years, how much swifter may be our fall into disaster with Marshall's policies continuing to guide us?

I dunno. Maybe one of the specifics we can start with was whether Marshall was a Communist agent while in the White House, because that seems to be one of the unavoidable conclusions of McCarthy's speech. Maybe you can try to dodge the implication that Truman was a communist, but certainly not Marshall. Indeed, Eisenhower later exploded in anger at a press conference on August 22, 1952 at McCarthy's attacks on Marshall, saying "I am not going to support anything that smacks to me of un-Americanism... George Marshall is one of the Patriots in this country... If I could say more, I would, but I have no patience with anyone who can find in his record of service to this country anything to criticize."

And then there's the whole Jessup issue. Let's take a look at your statement earlier:

quote:

We know now, without a doubt, that not one single person was wrongly targeted by Senator Joseph McCarthy. Not one. FBI files and KGB files have vindicated him on every count and every person was as he charged.

Here's the claim that McCarthy made about Jessup:

quote:

That Jessup had been affiliated with five Communist front groups;
That Jessup had been a leading light in the Institute of Pacific Relations (IPR) at a time that organization was reflecting the Communist Party line;
And that he had "pioneered the smear campaign against Nationalist China and Chiang Kai-shek" and propagated the "myth of the 'democratic Chinese Communist'" through the IPR magazine, Far Eastern Survey, over which he had "absolute control";
That Jessup had associated with known Communists in the IPR;
That the IPR's American Council under Jessup's guidance had received more than $7,000 of Communist funds from Frederick Vanderbilt Field;
That Jessup had "expressed vigorous opposition" to attempts to investigate Communist penetration of the IPR;
That Jessup had urged that United States atom bomb production be brought to a halt in 1946, and that essential atomic ingredients be "dumped into the ocean";
That Jessup had appeared as a character witness for Alger Hiss, and that later, after Alger Hiss's conviction, Jessup had found "no reason whatever to change his opinion about Hiss's veracity, loyalty and integrity."

So is there any evidence coming out of Russia that Jessup was passing secrets to the Soviets? Or is this just another Encyclopedia Brown story, where the guy who lived down by the River Bank must be guilty because the box of chocolates was stolen from a thrift?

And then what about Senator William Benton? What evidence is there of him passing secrets to the Soviets or being under the control of the Russians? After Benton introduced a resolution to investigate McCarthy's campaign tactics, he was brutally attacked by McCarthy as a Commie:

quote:

[Benton has] established himself as the hero of every Communist and crook in and out of Congress.

McCarthy went on to charge that Benton "had been a clever propagandist for years, paralleling the Communist Party-line down to the last period, the last comma."

During the Eisenhower Administration, McCarthy went on to attack the President, calling him "A puppet on the strings being pulled by the Achesons, Lattimores, and Jessups."

Do you have any evidence that Eisenhower, or those in his administration, were communists?

I'm not speaking in generalities, here, I am quoting the Senator you are defending, whose signature was the passive-agressive use of generalities to basically imply someone was a communist conspirator without actually saying so directly. It was a brilliant strategy; it's too bad that it was used by someone who was using it to try and destroy the Democratic system he was trying to defend.

In any case, if you believe that McCarthy was right on every issue, you then believe that there was a communist conspiracy between:

-Jessup
-Benton
-Truman
-Marshall
-Eisenhower.

Do you have any evidence to back this conspiracy theory up? You're the one who's making the outrageous claim that McCarthy was right on all counts, and even though the general consensus on history really needs no defense, I've provided perhaps 1% of the evidence that McCarthy was way off base in the limited time I have.